Merry Christmas to everyone who sees this!
This being a holiday where morality is key to its meaning and understanding, I feel it's an appropriate day to speak of the morality of Track and Field Message Boards.
As there are just 2 I've participated in--or even am aware of!--I'll limit my comments to those two.
They are the Track and Field News MB and the Let's Run Forum.
I've mostly written on T&FN's MB, but while posting very little on LR's Forum, I've read extensively their commentary.
So what do I think of them?
I'll get to that in a minute.
First, let me ask (and answer!) the question: Should MB's have rules? Rules which set--and strictly adhere to!--a stated moral code?
Besides T&F-related MB's, I've contributed to a few political sites.
I'm a strong and proud supporter of Sarah Palin, and have written a lot of stuff on 2 or 3 SP sites, especially C4P (Conservatives for Palin).
One thing I learned on C4P is that they won't tolerate "trolls"--those who come to a site merely to insult, criticize, and attack.
I think that's a good policy, because you want a place where you feel comfortable posting comments that would get attacked on sites where they hold beliefs diametrically opposite yours.
It's nice to be among friends and "fellow travelers".
T&F (and Running) MB's seem to be simple and straightforward.
They are there to discuss subjects related to a sport where participants range from youth to masters, from HS to Professionals, from all-comers meets to the Olympic Games.
The subject of a particular thread could be about a meet, an event, an athlete, or just general stuff, but still connected somehow to the sport. (Drugs, the ruling organizations, awards won, predictions, movies and books about T&F, etc.)
But underlying the INclusion of subject matter is what should be EXcluded!
And that's where rules come in.
T&FN, for example, insists that racist and sexist remarks, as well as personal attacks on other posters, are verboten.
Also that speculation on athletes who are SUSPECTED of drug use is a no-no.
Until the FACTS are in, innuendo and accusations are forbidden!
Many people have been banned from the T&FN MB, usually just temporarily, for going against these rules.
I'll tell you a personal story.
When Mary Cain exploded on the scene during the INdoor season of 2013, I wrote a LOT about her.
(I only started writing on their MB in May of 2012!)
While I mentioned her charming personality, my comments were 99.9% about her athletic feats, and future potential.
I admit I went overboard with my enthusiasm for her!
(Although breaking 6 INdoor HSR's and 4 OUTdoor HSR's in less than 6 months warranted such commentary.)
But after awhile, one poster called my fandom of her "creepy", and accused me of being a "stalker". He (I'm sure it was a he!) even said that Mary's father should be "concerned".
I fought back, but the attacks continued.
Then I wrote something that got me banned.
Cain joined Twitter late in 2013.
It took a few days, however, for her to produce her first tweet.
When she did, I announced it on T&FN's MB, saying she had "lost her Twitter virginity".
It was a JOKE!!
But Garry Hill banned me, and wrote (in a Personal Message) that my comment was "sick" and "insane"!
She was 17 at the time.
I was angry, but I also laughed--or LMAO, as Twitter Language puts it!
I mean, what century does Garry live in?
Did he believe I was somehow sneakily referring to her ACTUAL virginity?
Does he think that 17 year old's aren't sexually sophisticated, or at least knowledgeable, if not actively involved?
But I digress.
This "extra" post was inspired not by that incident, but by what happened yesterday on Let's Run's MB.
Remember an early post here asking the whereabouts of Wesley Frazier, Natosha Rogers, and Cayla Hatton?
Well, still curious about those 3, I began a thread on LR asking about them, and 3 or 4 other young women.
I wrote a very brief description of their 2012 or 2013 accomplishments, then wondered where they were, or why they had UNDERperformed in 2014.
(Cain was NOT among the group I was asking about!)
I received 2 comments.
The first was okay, as it stuck to the subject.
The second called my interest in these ladies "creepy" and like a "stalker".
(Sounds familiar, yes?!)
To top off the insults, this person named himself (I assume it's a he!) "Erin Krohn".
My real name is Aaron Krohn (Aaron K's T&F Record Book).
"Erin" is a female name, as in Erin Brockovich or....Erin Finn.
I complained to Let's Run, but only about that particular comment!
Then, a bit later, I went to see if it (the comment) had been removed.
Yes, it had.
But so had my entire thread!!
Now let me give 2 examples of LR's hypocritical stance.
When Mary (Cain) was mostly inactive this past spring and summer, and when 1 or 2 other NOP athletes were injured or running poorly, speculation began on LR.
About Cain, more than 1 poster said that Coach Salazar was probably feeding them drugs (PED's), or that Mary might be pregnant (!!!), and from there, it got even MORE demented....or, if you will, CREEPY!!
When Alexa Efraimson had problems at the end of a couple of races (She fell, from exhaustion, in the final 100 meters or so of two 5K's!), the comments said she suffered from every disease, whether physical or mental, known to humankind!
(And yes, I was guilty of this too. I suggested it might be the onset of Multiple Sclerosis! This was just after I'd seen the video called "Catching Kayla", about Kayla Montgomery, who became known while in HS as a top-name runner suffering from MS.)
But very few, if any, attacked these people who were using the misfortune of a 17 year old HS girl to fulfill their armchair doctor fantasies!
They allowed the speculation about Alexa to run rampant!
As they did the "drugs" and "pregnancy" crap about Mary Cain (and others in NOP).
And yet, my simple questioning of the whereabouts or current health and competition status of some young (all at least 18!) girls provoked slanderous commentary calling me "creepy" and a "stalker".
These, and MANY other examples, call loudly for the setting of parameters within which commentators can feel safe and free to speak their mind.
1. On MB's on sites totally devoted to T&F and/or Running, all threads (and comments therein) should be ABOUT the sport, its athletes, and other related subjects.
2. As they do on T&FN MB, I agree that racist and sexist remarks should be forbidden.
3. But DEFINE those terms! Can we talk about Maggie Vessey's "sexy" racing gear, about Lolo Jones being a self-confessed virgin, about Suzy Favor Hamilton's year as a Call Girl, or even about Mary Cain having a boyfriend?
4. Justin Gatlin has been roundly attacked this year, especially as to whether he should be considered for Athlete of the Year, because he'd been banned for drugs TWICE! His defenders say he's served his time, and unless he tests positive for drugs AGAIN, should be allowed the status of "athlete redeemed".
5. This almost total criticism of Gatlin is contradicted when set against the commentary about recently banned Inika McPherson. Most comments about her (mine included!) say she doesn't deserve a 21 month ban---or even ANY ban!---and should lose only the mark (6-6.75, her PR) from the meet where she tested positive!
6. So MB's should have a rule about "consistency", meaning consistency of the comments. If you attack 1 drug cheat, attack them all! If talk about the NON-athletic life of an athlete is a no-no, make it so for EVERY athlete, regardless of gender or age! (What is allowable when athletics and one's private life come together, as when 34-weeks-pregnant Alysia Montano "competed" in this year's USATF OUTdoor meet? The video and photos of her became instantly viral!)
7. Whether or not they might hold some validity, I firmly believe that PERSONAL ATTACKS should NOT be allowed. That "Sticks and stones...." phrase may be a cliche, and true, but being called names, or accused of "crimes" never even thought about.....HURTS! Many people are asking, in a more general sense than just about our sport, where civility and humaneness has disappeared to in this so called "beacon of democracy". If you read the comments on LR's MB (and to a lesser extent, on T&FN's MB), you might be asking the same question.
I started this blog to give honor and respect to the records and marks of T&F athletes.
I believe I have done so.
And will continue to do so, as long as I'm still breathing!
But sometimes something arises which calls for an immediate response.
If we let things go too long, a cancer will grow within that will disease, and ultimately kill, the body of that which we speak.
We NEED Message Boards.
We WANT them!
But please, let's attach some standards of morality to them.
And adhere to those standards.
My next post will be the "Best and Worst of 2014".
See you then.
"T&FN, for example, insists that racist and sexist remarks, as well as personal attacks on other posters, are verboten."
ReplyDeleteExcept when it comes to you. Unfortunately, many personal attacks against you were allowed to stand, and in my opinion, all the attacks were unwarranted and accused you of "crimes" you did not commit. The real crimes were the attacks on you, and those posters should have been banned for them, but they were not. So the rule you cited, as quoted above, is not enforced in any consistent way.
Hardly anyone came to your defense and you were put in the awkward position of having to defend yourself from many spurious and unwarranted attacks. I felt moved to come to your defense myself, but resisted doing so as I didn't want to get in the middle of a ridiculous conflict. I had already seen a lot of stupid, obnoxious behavior on the T&FN site, some directed at me, and I had already pulled back from posting for this reason. I hardly ever post there now, mostly because of the utterly mean-spirited and inappropriate way you have been treated there. However, it should be noted that things seem to have gotten better there with regard to you, as I don't see so many attacks on you there now as previously. And even earlier when you were being viciously attacked for no good reason, some of the more mature and intelligent posters, such as Master Po, continued to engage you in a humane and civil way. He didn't specifically defend you from the idiotic attacks to which you were subjected, but rather set an example of the right way to engage you in an intelligent discussion of track and field issues.
There is one comment, however, I would like to make here in your defense which applies to a specific attack on you on the T&FN message board which was made some time ago, and was recently repeated. The poster "Atticus" (previously known as "tafnut" and "Marlow") used to carry on obnoxiously about his infatuation with Stacy Dragila. His comments were laced with sexual and romantic overtones and undertones. He did receive some criticism for this, but generally his comments were ignored and allowed to stand. This same poster has, on more than one occasion, claimed that his obsession with Stacy Dragila nowhere near rises to the level of your supposed "obsession" with Mary Cain. In this claim, he is blatantly lying. It's a totally false claim. As stated above, his obsession with Stacy Dragila personally was endlessly repeated with clear romantic and sexual innuendo. Whereas your comments about Mary Cain, however enthusiastic, were always about her athletic achievements and potential, and never contained even the slightest sexual or romantic innuendo. I never saw anything even slightly inappropriate about anything you ever said concerning Mary Cain -- you were even, by far, the best predictor of her performances in 2013 -- whereas the comments by Atticus about Stacy Dragila were consistently inappropriate, disgusting, and utterly out of place on a track and field message board. His claims about this issue are utterly false and dishonest.
Well, you surely have outdone yourself here, Marco!!
ReplyDeleteBut....thank you!
I have to admit, this post is one I'm really proud and excited about....if I do say so myself!
As I noted, I first started writing on the T&FN MB in May 2012.
So I never saw any of Atticus's (etc) remarks about Dragila.
I know he's referenced them in comments about me, but I've never seen any!
(Maybe I'll research them to see what you mean about their being sexually & romantically flavored!)
As for my call for defining what's sexist or racist, I don't really know if those subjects can be set inside a box...outside which any remarks do not offend one party or another.
I've read stuff on these MB's that are BLATANTLY racist or sexist...or jingoistic.....as the battles between who's better in the sprint, Jamaica or the US....or why blacks are better sprinters than whites.....or why black Africans are so much better than their (mostly) white American counterparts!
The closest I've come to making sexist remarks have been when speaking about Michelle Jenneke's pre-race "dance"....or about Lolo!
But when several MILLION people have viewed her YouTube video of her performance, it's something you have to mention...in terms of its being provocative.....or not!
Same with Lolo's claims of being a virgin.
I thiink she started saying that when she was 29.
She's now 32, and it continues to be the way many people describe her.....rather than as Olympic hurdler, etc.
And can you NOT mention SFH's call girl history...especially when that's all that's spoken about since she first revealed it.?
In those cases, a fine line needs to be drawn as to what's open for discussion on MB's.....or not!
Anyway, thanks again for your strong.....and loyal....support!
BTW, you spoke of Master Po being civil towards me.
I agree.
Also, he recently sent me a PM asking for the URL to this blog.
He said he wants to read it!
As I noted, the next post SHOULD be my Best and Worst of 2014.
See ya!